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Good-Bye DESKI and Good-Bye SAP BO
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Mary Brigden
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:57 pm 
Post subject: Re: Good-Bye DESKI and Good-Bye SAP BO

I was very interested (and disappointed - of course) in this thread. I'd like to chime in on behalf of SAP that we continue to be very committed to our customers. That said, by the comments in this thread, it doesn't feel this way to many of you. Please feel free to email me directly with your feedback and frustration. I commit to you to getting you a prompt response and updating you with what we're doing with your feedback.

As head of Customer Success for SAP BusinessObjects your comments are important to me and to all of us here at SAP. I hope to hear from you. Best regards, Mary email: mary.brigden@sap.com
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BIFan
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:32 pm 
Post subject: Re: Good-Bye DESKI and Good-Bye SAP BO

May be my own opinion mary but too little too late I think is the best words to add.

I don't believe SAP cares enough.

My current contract is unfortunately bringing other tools for evaluation. Seems that not only are they frustrated with this whole SAP BO direction but the sales people are going over the heads of IT and don't think its a good thing they are doing this.

That said, I hope to still stay with BO but it doesn't look promising if I stay here. icon_sad.gif
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Cris E
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:30 pm 
Post subject: Re: Good-Bye DESKI and Good-Bye SAP BO

I don't think my sales guy knows anything about BI. He shows up and pretty much can't answer a question, tries to push upgrades and tries to sell consulting. Last fall he encouraged us to go to 4.0 in first quarter 2011 and brushed off concerns that there was no release date and it's a .0 release. He's slick and awful. And he replaces the guy who stood around during our audit. It's not a great relationship right now.

That could be just a personality thing, but the general vibe of the company (the face that I see anyway) is different than a few years ago. The local user group was strong and fun but went away. The ASUG agendas are not appealing to me since we're not going to go ERP and I can't waste a day hoping the BI content might be valuable. It was a terrific company to work with, but now SAP wants to take more profit out of them. It's life, but you're not going to get anyone to say it's been an improvement.
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clarence
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:22 pm 
Post subject: Re: Good-Bye DESKI and Good-Bye SAP BO

Quote:
I don't think my sales guy knows anything about BI.

I'm going to have to say that I have observed the same thing with nearly all of the account reps that I've dealt with. They know surprisingly little about the product they sell.

Quote:
And he replaces the guy who stood around during our audit. It's not a great relationship right now.

Seems like they are constantly being rotated/assigned to new customers so as to avoid any kind of accountability.
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MichaelWelter
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:55 am 
Post subject: Re: Good-Bye DESKI and Good-Bye SAP BO

I'd like to jump in for a few quick comments.

First of all, please refrain from any name calling. If it continues, this thread will be locked.

Second, I encourage all of you to take Mary's offer. What have you got to lose? Send her an honest, professional email, and allow her to do her job. I appreciate her offer.

Carry on . . . icon_cool.gif

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Andreas
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:02 am 
Post subject: Re: Good-Bye DESKI and Good-Bye SAP BO

My personal thoughts:
A sales representative and a pre-sales consultant are totally different "breeds". If you need some more technical insight I can only recommend getting SAP pre-sales consultants involved. Or substitute this by a consultant of an SAP partner if you feel more comfortable going down this route.

If you think others BI companies offer you more value and the grass seems to be greener there, so be it, as sad as it is to loose a customer one cannot accomodate every single customer, sadly.

Otherwise, I can only echo Michael's thought: What have you got to loose by contacting Mary from SAP?

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MJRBIM
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 7:42 am 
Post subject: Re: Good-Bye DESKI and Good-Bye SAP BO

Andreas wrote:
My personal thoughts: A sales representative and a pre-sales consultant are totally different "breeds". If you need some more technical insight I can only recommend getting SAP pre-sales consultants involved.


Agreed, but if that is the case - then SAP should stop sending the above described "rotating-cast of sales representatives" out to Customer sites without the "Adult Supervision" provided by a pre-sales consultant.

Some customers are buying tools in "Good Faith" based on what those sales representatives tell them during the sales cycle - and then finding themselves out-of-compliance with their SAP-BOBJ license cops because the sales representative (who isn't around any more) sold them the wrong (or incomplete) licenses.

I have already sent an e-mail to Mary that links to a number of threads on this site that detail some of those issues.

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substring
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:37 am 
Post subject: Re: Good-Bye DESKI and Good-Bye SAP BO

In addition to what Michael and Andreas have said, I am a strong believer of "if there is something you don't like about (in this case, an organization), do something about it and change it from within".

For example, if we don't like what the U.S. government is doing, we are not going to move to another country like our Hollywood celebrities have been threatening, right? Instead, we start a grass-root movement to "influence" our government and to "change" their policies. I believe the analogy applies to the vendor of our beloved tools.

If you are a single small customer, a major software vendor probably will not be listening to you.... and neither will Microsoft, Oracle or IBM, or any major corporation on this planet. This is where you need "collective bargaining" power. And this is where user communities like ASUG and SCN come in.

When there is a proper forum set up, SAP does listen. They stopped renaming WebI to Interactive Analysis is a small example. And Mary being tasked for ensuring "Customer Success" is a good indication that they are trying. It is never too late unless you gave up before trying.

As Michael and Andreas have said, give it a try. But please keep it professional and provide constructive suggestion. You have nothing to lose but a lot to gain if it works.

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iguanasterix
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:06 am 
Post subject: Re: Good-Bye DESKI and Good-Bye SAP BO

I've been a big fan of BusinessObjects since I started working with it, and I still believe it continues to be one of the best BI platforms out there despite its acquisition by SAP (that just proves how great BusinessObjects is!)

That being said I do believe this post is just showing the frustration of both customers and partners that have been negatively affected by the changes that SAP has implemented (and those that it has failed to implement) after this acquisition.

The Magic Quadrant from Business Intelligence Platforms from Gartner for 2011 shows this forum is a representation fo the average feeling:

"Our market survey data shows that ratings for SAP's customer experience for its BI platform product, which includes ratings for support, software quality and for sales experience are the lowest of any vendor in the survey. This is the fourth year in a row for low scores. SAP has put in place programs to address customer issues with support and to address, more broadly, the customer experience."

@Mary It's obvious for both this thread and the Gartner BI review that SAP has failed miserably on being "very committed to their customers"

By focusing on their SAP customers (where the big bucks are) SAP has neglected all the non-SAP customers & Partners... I seriously hope this "programs" that Gartner mentions kick in soon, before it's too late
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Mitra Moini
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:33 am 
Post subject: Re: Good-Bye DESKI and Good-Bye SAP BO

substring wrote:


. . . we are not going to move to another country like our Hollywood celebrities have been threatening, right?


Substring,

Unfortunately, sometimes for sanity's sake, moving to another country is one's only option. Trust me, I know. Do you think we would have an immigration problem in this country if all those that come here could change things internally in their own countries? Believe me they have tried for many many years but here we are.

The same thing is true with most corporate organizations, I am afraid. Sorry,

Mitra

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Dave Rathbun
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:48 am 
Post subject: Re: Good-Bye DESKI and Good-Bye SAP BO

Just as an observation: Deski was going away before SAP acquired BusinessObjects. I realize that some of the comments in this topic are not strictly limited to that concern, and I applaud Mary for coming here and making herself available to address those other concerns.

But it's not fair to blame SAP for killing Deski. That was in the works long before they bought the company.

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Nick Daniels
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:41 pm 
Post subject: Re: Good-Bye DESKI and Good-Bye SAP BO

Dave Rathbun wrote:
I applaud Mary for coming here and making herself available to address those other concerns.

I second that and would sincerely encourage anyone with sensible thoughts or feedback on these issues to take the time to put the details down on a email.

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pv_at_sap
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:00 pm 
Post subject: Re: Good-Bye DESKI and Good-Bye SAP BO

Hi everyone,

I manage a team of Enterprise Care Managers here in Vancouver that are dedicated to improving the customer experience, especially for Business Objects customers. I was here during the acquisition so I can appreciate all your feedback.

Your comments are valuable to us. And I share Mary's commitment to turn your present experiences to more positive ones. Please feel free to email me as well at paulo.vallejo@sap.com.

I look forward to hearing from you soon.

Best regards,

Paulo
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ystu15
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:21 am 
Post subject: Re: Good-Bye DESKI and Good-Bye SAP BO

Hi Everyone,
I took Mary's request for comments and questions and followed up with her on some directional questions I had.
In turn she forwarded my thoughts to Dave Weisbeck VP, responsible for BI Strategy here was his response\thoughts in the hopes to answer anyone's questions\concerns....
============
As Business Objects, and now as SAP, we have remained dedicated to the idea of the best tool for the job. That means if you are a developer creating richly formatted reports to distribute information to others, then Crystal Reports is a great solution. If you want to monitor highly summarized information with light interactivity then Xcelsius is a great solution. If you are looking to create reports that end users can edit and tweak and you are not as worried about formatting as much as you are about ease of use and end user self service (what we call adhoc) then Web Intelligence (WebI) and Desktop Intelligence (DeskI) are great solutions. Hopefully you see the problem – having two solutions to one problem ultimately creates confusion.

The reality is we have been working on WebI as a replacement for DeskI for about 9 years now. Despite the ‘web’ name of WebI, it has been available in an offline (or desktop) mode for several years now and while some users remain passionate about DeskI, the vast majority find WebI simply more capable and powerful. Given this, plus the fact that we haven’t updated DeskI with new functionality in years, we decided that with 4.0 it was time to move to the next step in the transition to WebI as the premier adhoc solution. We are very much aware and listening to the feedback that is coming as a result of the decision not to ship DeskI. We certainly didn’t take this decision lightly, and it is worth pointing out that DeskI remains supported for many years on XI 3.1.

Note, you can read more about WebI here:

http://www.sap.com/solutions/sapbusinessobjects/large/business-intelligence/qra/web_intelligence/featuresfunctions/index.epx

But perhaps more importantly, you can also download a free trial of an offline version of WebI here (note, it is named Crystal Interactive Analysis, but it is indeed Web Intelligence):

https://www.sap.com/campaign/2010_CURR_SAP_Crystal_Interactive_Analysis/index.epx?kNtBzmUK9zU

I would definitely encourage you to check out WebI, as I would expect you’ll find that same intuitiveness that you found in DeskI. The trial I have linked to is based on the 3.1 version, and the 4.0 version greatly extends the capabilities and user experience.
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BIFan
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:39 am 
Post subject: Re: Good-Bye DESKI and Good-Bye SAP BO

Quote:
developer creating richly formatted reports to distribute information to others, then Crystal Reports is a great solution. If you want to monitor highly summarized information with light interactivity then Xcelsius is a great solution. If you are looking to create reports that end users can edit and tweak and you are not as worried about formatting as much as you are about ease of use and end user self service (what we call adhoc) then Web Intelligence (WebI) and Desktop Intelligence (DeskI) are great solutions.


Now I understand, their evaluation or process of thinking is incorrect ...
DESKI is looked at as being ADHOC and only ADHOC. This is NOT TRUE!!
There is nothing, again NOTHING that can be done in Crystal that DESKI can not do. Or at least I never came across any.

The fact that they call it ADHOC is because of its ease of use as far as dragging and dropping. But they are missing what its original intent was. As an OLAP tool; or a closer OLAP tool than any other in the industry.

In their evaluation of the tools maybe what they should have looked at the whole picture of creating\formatting reports. In Crystal it would take me hours upon hours to create a report and\or reformat a single report. In DESKI it would take about an hour to create a report and a few minutes to reformat it.
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